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Kshanti: Greetings Wentermute: Hi, Kshanti. Kshanti: sorry about the topic change Wentermute: Topic change? Kshanti: you got the last e-mail right? Kshanti: not death Wentermute: From ray or you? Kshanti: me Wentermute: I must not be on your list. LotusB5: Good evening! Wentermute: Hello, Lotus. Kshanti: oh, wow, i forgot. I'll add you LotusB5: What'd I miss? Kshanti: tonight's topic is "Buddhism and society" Kshanti: not much lotus Be Diff: hello Kshanti: hi Wentermute: I wasn't on her e-mail list, Lotus. LotusB5: Oh IC. Wentermute: Hi, Be Diff. Kshanti: ok, let's kick off the topic with a question...have any of you had troubles with Kshanti: buddhism interfering with your life? Kshanti: social life i mena Kshanti: (mean) Wentermute: Social life? You mean have fundie x-tians chase me around with bibles? Kshanti: heh heh, i guess so. I have that problem Kshanti: (x-titans) Kshanti: ? Wentermute: Chirstians. Sorry. Kshanti: people chase me with bibles anyway (it's ok) Kshanti: the fundementalists make me laugh Wentermute: Hmmm ... well, not being anything in particular, I still get chased for being a fencesitter. Kshanti: is it just me or is this topic not going places? Kshanti: i can't think of anyhting real great Wentermute: Well, there aren't here yet, Kshanti. Wentermute: many here, I mean. Kshanti: true i hope the room fills up Kshanti: BTW, thanks for uploading the last chat, Went Wentermute: No, prob. As far as I know, I'll be doing to upload duty for both chats now. Wentermute: I'm always early, you see. Wentermute: Hi, Kalfie. Kshanti: Greetings newcomers! Rain eater: hi :) LotusB5: Kshanti, I'm not sure how Buddhism would interfere with one's social life, could you explain? LotusB5: Evening Rain Wentermute: Hi, Rain. Kshanti: umm...it could afftect the way people think about you...umm (OMIGOD! what a lousy topic!) Rain eater: is everyone here a practicing buddhist? Kshanti: my worst nightmare Kshanti: thinking...thinking... Kshanti: i am, Rain LotusB5: Quick Kshanti, change the topic :). Wentermute: Well, how about the difficulty it is for buddhists to find teachers/centers in no-where land Wentermute: places like the midwest. Kshanti: I just wanted a light topic LotusB5: Hey Snarkster Man!!! Wentermute: The snarkster has entered the building ... AArmo: Evening all! SnarkyMan: Hey, hey, B5. How ya doin'?? Kshanti: true Went, but severely limited (GOTTA THINK) LotusB5: Hi AArmo!!! Rain eater: i'm really interested in learning. Wentermute: Hi, A! SnarkyMan: hello, aarmo AArmo: Hi Lotus! How are you tonight! Hi Went...Grrr Snarky SnarkyMan: So....what's the chatter, y'all?? LotusB5: Rain, I am a practicing Buddhist. Kshanti: let's just make it a free topic Wentermute: Hey, Kshanti, how about a topic like "The Perils of On-Line Grasping and Buddhism"? SnarkyMan: Free?? Great, I'll take two! AArmo: Good one Wenter..Good one! Kshanti: terrific (one apiece Snarky) SnarkyMan: Is that a peril of wisdom from you, Went? Rain eater: somebody just tried to trick me into giving my password LotusB5: Snarky, I got a question for you. Do you think the full merge can be repeated? Wentermute: Wisdom form me? SnarkyMan: Full merge? Kshanti: who Rain? Rain eater: fun2watchU Kshanti: beware AArmo: What is a full Merge Lotus? SnarkyMan: How do you mean "repeated," Lotus? Rain eater: when i know more i'll come back Wentermute: You're talking about a satori or fusion flash, right lotus? AArmo: Fusion flash? Kshanti: i'm lost, i don't have many experiences Wentermute: That wahat she's calls it. LotusB5: Yes. Bad topic. SnarkyMan: Good topic, Lotus! Wentermute: Well, lets just practice wu-wei and not worry about having a topic -- they never last anyway SnarkyMan: I think satoris are for real. I think there are levels of satoris. I THINK I disagree with SnarkyMan: the Wentmeister, however, in that I think it is a merge into consciousness,... SnarkyMan: not a merge into a Void. Wentermute: Well, Zen Void isn't literal vaccuum, Snarky, maybe that's where the disagreement is. LotusB5: Have you had one Snarky? IamYourMan: Lotus........ interested in medicine? SnarkyMan: A low-level satorical experience. LotusB5: Not interested in anyone except Wenter. But yes, medicine is a field of interest. Wentermute: Why do you say Low-level, snark? SnarkyMan: ...a fearless, shameless state of exultation. LotusB5: There are differing levels Wenter. KiIIrSmurf: anybody seen Haiku17 lately? LotusB5: Ksmurf: not today. KiIIrSmurf: bummer JMiller459: What kind of Buddism is in here? LotusB5: Snark: so you've never had the full merge then? Kshanti: tibetan in my corner Wentermute: All sorts of Buddhisms, just one kind, why do you ask, J? SnarkyMan: Sorry to say, I am confined to my skin. Sigh. JMiller459: Used to study, long time ago IamYourMan: Who/ What is Wenter ? Wentermute: Me. AArmo: Hi Sus! How are you? Wentermute: Hi, Susalena. MKirk10353: What is a "full merge"? Kshanti: Hello SnarkyMan: hi, sus!!! LotusB5: Snark, oh IC. I guess that's why you keep labeling what one merges with. Susalena: hi aarmo, i,m breathing, sitting... ;-) LotusB5: Hi Sus!!! Kshanti: free topic after all to the newcomers... Susalena: hi all LotusB5: How are you tonight Sus? SailSatori: i cant get mu out of my mind, it is driving me crazy help help help Susalena: hanging in there SnarkyMan: Lotus, you stinker. Are you playing one-upsmanship games with me?? Susalena: thanls MKirk10353: What is a "full merge"? LotusB5: No, but now I see why you think it's consciousness. Wentermute: Sail: You working on a koan, or something? SailSatori: working? LotusB5: MKirk, a full merge is a full satori with the One, the ultimate reality. SnarkyMan: so, your term instead of consciousness is..... SnarkyMan: ...full merge? MKirk10353: Thanks,Lotus. Wentermute: Mu is a common Koan, thought that's what your were refering to. SailSatori: yea i was SnarkyMan: So "the One" is what? a hunk of granite? LotusB5: Snark, instead of consciousness, I call it the One, the Ultimate Reality, the Law of Life, Tao, etc. Lisa Pizza: Hi! Kshanti: hello Wentermute: Hi, Pizza AArmo: Hi LotusB5: Hello SnarkyMan: ...but you object to "consciousness?" MKirk10353: I sense the ONE as Ntu....universal life force Susalena: hi Lisa Pizza: Just dropping in , topic? Kshanti: i am too sick owowowowowow! LotusB5: MK: universal life force works for me. Kshanti: no topic tonight Wentermute: Seems to be satoris, Pizza. SailSatori: no topic pizza, is that deep dish or hand tossed IamYourMan: GOOD QUESTION IamYourMan: WHATS THE TOPIC? Susalena: buddhist chat! <-----topic ;- Susalena: 0 SnarkyMan: "force" doesn't work for me. Sounds untaoist. LotusB5: Snark: consciousness implies a brain for me, maybe not for you, but it also implies an awareness. SailSatori: i have a good koan for you, is the father, son and holy ghost, one or three SailSatori: if you say one i will hit you Kshanti: i'm gonna have to leave early, damn! SailSatori: if you say three i will hit you CRUCIAL7: hi all LotusB5: Hi MKirk10353: What does"untaoist" mean? AArmo: Hi IamYourMan: HI LotusB5: Sail; it is one. AArmo: Who are those guys Sail? Wentermute: Sail: How about If I just hit you first. LotusB5: ;). Kshanti: bye all sorry, I kinda botched this chat up. CRUCIAL7: What about buddhist chat SnarkyMan: "Force" implies a Power. Power doesnt go with the flow. Forestin: hello Susalena: bye kshanti Kshanti: bye AArmo: Bye Kshanti SailSatori: or maybe is it the buddha, dharma and sangha, is it one or three Wentermute: Kshanti: Nothing's botched, its going fine! Susalena: it's fine the way it is CRUCIAL7: Any of you have Prodigy? AArmo: One or three what? Wentermute: Sail: How about two? MKirk10353: Why do you say "power doesn't go with thr flow"? CRUCIAL7: 3 of course. SailSatori: not bad aa SnarkyMan: Power is grasping, seeking, craving. AArmo: Thanks, I think. MKirk10353: Is It ? SailSatori: okay another koan aa, how does a camel pass through the eye of a needle Lisa Pizza: Why do Buddhist's chant? CRUCIAL7: Ages check. SnarkyMan: Small camel, big needle. CRUCIAL7: m/15 AArmo: How does a camel pass through anything? AArmo: What is a camel? LotusB5: Lisa, good question, I don't know, and I chant. Wentermute: Sail: Look at the camel through the needlehead. Susalena: koans need work in zazen, perhaps this forum is not the best suited for their answers SailSatori: chanting is a practice of the loss of self, a loss in the actual chant. CRUCIAL7: Namo adida phat MKirk10353: Snarky, Why do you say "power is seeking ,grasping,"? IamYourMan: Lisa, are you learning Vietnamese? CRUCIAL7: I am vietnamese. Lisa Pizza: yes AArmo: Snarky...sounds like power = ego? He's STILL around? IamYourMan: WHAT do you chant? Wentermute: Kirk: I think Snarky is defining power as power over others/things, no? SnarkyMan: MKirk: Well what other definition of power do you have. Yes, power is an ego thing. MKirk10353: I question the definition IamYourMan: Crucial.............. your help in the REAL buddhism is needed in this room SnarkyMan: I'm open for another definition. Wentermute: Snarky: Sometimes it can just be describing a feeling, I think. MKirk10353: energy MKirk10353: ntu Wentermute: Like, that thunderstorm rolling in felt powerful. MKirk10353: hetepu SnarkyMan: no comprende, Went. How is power a feeling? AArmo: What else would it be? Wentermute: Like, lightnign flashes make you jump. Like orgasms are powerful. That sort of thing. MKirk10353: Wenter..That feels to be true to me as well SailSatori: for a religion that is beyond words, what can be accomplished on aol. better we all just hit SailSatori: on women IamYourMan: NOT TRUE! Susalena: maybe sail... Wentermute: Does that make sense, Snarky? Lisa Pizza: Are the words of the chant significant? EG,if they are in Pali and you don't understand them.....?? SnarkyMan: Well, yes it makes sense. But I still have a problem here. LotusB5: Snarky, power is neutral. Wentermute: Yes? SailSatori: i used to worry lisa, i just gave up and play along MKirk10353: Lotus is centered SailSatori: da na mori na a etc etc SnarkyMan: Implicit in their powerfullness is the "use of power" And the use of power is always the SnarkyMan: abuse of it. LotusB5: ?? MKirk10353: Implicit? AArmo: So what are you to do with power? MKirk10353: Do with? Wentermute: Lisa: I know a zen teacher in Cleveland who says that you can chant a phone book Wentermute: and still get the same effect. SnarkyMan: Withdraw from power! Is not that what Buddha did? Susalena: power...just let it flow through you when you feel it MKirk10353: Wente...that is possible AArmo: I like that Sus. Sounds more "middle" way. Susalena: do not resist or grasp Junas: hello SailSatori: hey jun Susalena: hello AArmo: Snarky...is it always necessary to suppress or kill things that are strong? Wentermute: Snarky: I understand what you are saying. Just differing defintions is all. MKirk10353: Snarky I am that I am ...I cannot withdraw fromI Junas: hey Sail Wentermute: Hi, Junas. Susalena: ther you go snark! Junas: hi Went SnarkyMan: AA: You object to "kill" the Ego. But if you are not attached to it, Kill (a powerful word SnarkyMan: would not annoy you. AArmo: Am I annoyed? MKirk10353: Ego? AArmo: I dont' like extremes, that's all. MKirk10353: Kill? SailSatori: no, no ego here SailSatori: yea right SnarkyMan: I stumbled on the word annoy. AArmo: I think it better to accept the ego and let it be than kill it so it can't. Wentermute: Hi, Sati! Sati Space: Hello All AArmo: Hi Sati! MKirk10353: Ego? SnarkyMan: What is taoism other than a withdrawl from the effects of power? Susalena: hi sati Junas: it is the path of least resistance Sati Space: Oh no! the E word SnarkyMan: Well, AA, I define the Ego as that which stands in ones way. Wentermute: Snark: By your defintion, I think I agree with you. But you can also say that it is SailSatori: who's way Wentermute: connecting to the power of the Tao. AArmo: Why does it stand in the way. I really want to understand what you mean. SnarkyMan: [ALWAYS the E-word with me, Sati!] HI SATI! SnarkyMan: That's an oxymoron, Went! LotusB5: Hi Sati, good to have you back. SailSatori: so are you saying jesus lacked power snark Susalena: as long as you recognize ego as standing in your way, then you are "blocked" by it Sati Space: nice to be back MKirk10353: What is ego? AArmo: Nice to have you back! SailSatori: who is recognizing and who is blocked SnarkyMan: Much of Jesus's philosopy moved people, because of its absense of power. Wentermute: Snark: I mean the feeling of power the Tao has. Sorry. Candilibra: Hi Sail! SailSatori: hi candi sweetheart SnarkyMan: Right, Sus. so you destroy it. Candilibra: Hello all MKirk10353: Hi Candi LotusB5: Snarky, what about the power of compassion? Junas: a seventh level magnetic king ol jesus was SnarkyMan: Ah, Went. You're in total agreement with me, again! You're learning. I confirm you! Wentermute: I think, in a way, trying to kill ego actively just perpetuates it. It takes an ego to kill Wentermute: an ego! MKirk10353: Is that ego? SnarkyMan: I am BIG on compassion! you find compassion by transcending power. Sati Space: I think so! Wentermute: Power over others and events, yes. Wentermute: Avoiding it, I mean. Susalena: as long as you "see" ego, you have have ego AArmo: Can you be compassionate with an ego? Junas: that is until the manifestation of the infinite soul Susalena: have to look ai things another way Sati Space: Soul? SailSatori: okay atman SailSatori: are you happy now space SnarkyMan: Sus, I basically agree. Ego is a dynamic. It dies from "neglect." Susalena: non-linear, non-sequential thought. sit in zazen... SailSatori: no dont sit in zazen, just sit sus Wentermute: The infinite soul ... hmmm treading dangerously close to Brahma, me thinks. LotusB5: Sail, no atman, only one universal life shared by all living beings. MKirk10353: CIRCLE SailSatori: living? Wentermute: [Me thinks too much, though, so don't worry about it.] SailSatori: you know guys, i sit alot, this seems like a waste of time, SailSatori: i would rather hit on candi Junas: just treading in the great illusion like the rest of us Wentermute: Sail: How are you sitting? AArmo: I think your ego and your libido are getting the best of you Sail. Candilibra: Oh you would would you? SailSatori: in confusion mostly SnarkyMan: If you transcend "this and that" you enter cosmic consciousness. Consciousness where there SnarkyMan: are not things. SailSatori: sitting on a mat or lying down with candi, what do you think guys? Wentermute: Well, then, you aren't so much different after all! Candilibra: Tell me what is Buddhism???? I don't know a lot about it? Susalena: sit on a mat SailSatori: los sus Susalena: on your own butt SailSatori: lol sus AArmo: Get'em sus Susalena: ;-) Wentermute: :-D Wentermute: Candilibra: Um ... that's a tall order in a chat. Read any books? Jamie says: hi Susalena: hi Wentermute: I like the screenname Jamie! Candilibra: No Wentermute...none, I am Catholic! Jamie says: thank you. WWong333: O ME TAU FUT Thuy74: Hello fellow buddhists Sati Space: For me Buddhism is Peace Susalena: well all, speaking of sitting... that's where i'm headed. Candilibra: Try please.....curious! Thuy74: Hi Lotus LotusB5: Snark, compassion is not transcendance of power, is dissolution of ego. Susalena: see ya next week AArmo: Hang in there Sus! Sati Space: Nite Susalena Peace MKirk10353: Is this the room sexually frustrated Buddhists come to for cybersex? SailSatori: well the first noble truth candi is LIFE SUCKS Susalena: gassho LotusB5: Bye Sus. Good sitting. SnarkyMan: Lotus: Those are VERY similar!! Wentermute: Sus, you leaving already? WWong333: Hi fellow monks AArmo: Frustrated Buddhists? AArmo: Isn't that an oxymoron? SailSatori: i am not sexually frustrated, i just have trouble with a couple precepts. and thats one of SailSatori: them Sati Space: Hi Wong Candilibra: Life doesn't suck, it's wonderful! Tweety68: Hi There. Olsurfdude: Hello darma bums SnarkyMan: AArmo, what fellow monks? SailSatori: oh yea, but you catholics have guilt KilnDA: hello tweety AArmo: I didn't say that Snarky. AArmo: You should know me better :0 Sati Space: The room is hopping!!! Tweety68: Tell me about Buddism SnarkyMan: no, I mean "fellow monks" IS an oxymoron! Candilibra: I don't have any guilt! Tweety68: You are where you are SailSatori: good candi AArmo: Oh...:) SnarkyMan: ...sort of. LotusB5: Snark; fellow monks is a redundancy. Maewren: you are what you think! SnarkyMan: VG, Lotus. Candilibra: I look forward to each day....... Jamie says: It's very hard to condense thousands of years of Buddhist philosophy into a few line Tweety. MKirk10353: Maewren:Yes! LotusB5: Snark: Military intelligence is an oxymoron. AArmo: Catholics look forward Buddhists look at now. AArmo: ...and move forward Maewren: did anyone ever read Mark Salzman's Laughing Sutra? SnarkyMan: Yes, Lotus. And A Bob Hope Special. SailSatori: thats awfully narrowminded aa Tweety68: I understand. I just need to change the way I think bnout certain situations. Jamie says: There are also as many sects of Buddhism. Maewren: MK, :-) LotusB5: LOL Snark. Tweety68: about certain situations AArmo: You think so? Tweety68: Yes MKirk10353: (-: Olsurfdude: Is'nt Buddha about compassion? AArmo: Why is it narrow Sail? Jamie says: Well that's Buddhist, recognizing that the solutions lie within you. LotusB5: Yes. Olsrf SnarkyMan: Absolutely, 'SurfDude. KilnDA: the closest i came to buddism is living across the street from the harekrishna's SailSatori: because i know a lot of catholics who are better buddhists than many of the buddhists i know Tweety68: I hope so. I have this challenging situation at work. It has to do with a certain creepy person. Candilibra: Gee.....so much to think about.. SnarkyMan: That may not be very close, kiln. Jamie says: Are they Buddhist? Maewren: Kiln, oh bad call..they have nothing in common! Sati Space: Go Went give a quick basic intro on Buddhism AArmo: Are they good Catholics? SailSatori: thats the point candi, dont think about it Candilibra: Why does religion have to be so complicated????? SailSatori: they are great catholics AArmo: What makes one a great Catholic? SailSatori: have you heard of centering prayer aa Tweety68: What does Buddism say about people that are creepy Maewren: I never follow any organize religion SailSatori: selflessness makes a great catholic aa Olsurfdude: Candi people make it complicated Maewren: I don't need religion to be a better person! Jamie says: Human beings like to complicate things, hense complicated ways of viewing life MKirk10353: Ol:Yes Kris954360: hi everyone AArmo: Selflessnes...Hmmm Has Catholicism changed in the last few years? SnarkyMan: Tweety: they have a Buddha buried deep inside them. Sati Space: Tweety why are they creepy? Maewren: Cheers Kris! Jamie says: Mae. Everyone has a religion whether they recognize it or not. Tweety68: On a conscious level, I do not want to them to be creepy. Kris954360: anyone here from Sri-Lanka by any chance? Maewren: Jamie, you think? Kris954360: hi Maewren SnarkyMan: Mae: Buddhism is a disorganized nonreligion. Olsurfdude: Jamie YES MKirk10353: Mae: You are perfecting Maewren: I am not a Buddhist, my parent's are! Kris954360: Buddhism is an organized philosophy SailSatori: just let me tell all you guys in the room, candi is mine, and i carry a big gun SailSatori: just kidding Tweety68: I just feel a really disgusting energy from this person. He threatens me. Jamie says: Some sects of Buddhism are very organized Snark Maewren: I however have read The Little Prince and I use that as my "bible" SnarkyMan: Here, here, Kris. But I don't know that it is all that organized. Wentermute: O, jeeze not the "we're not a religion, we're a philosophy" thing again -- taoists do the Wentermute: same thing! Jamie says: Mae, what sect of Buddhism do they practice? LotusB5: Wenter, but it's true. Tweety68: Is BUddism..believing in rebirth? Help.. Maewren: Jamie, not sure..I never asked... Kris954360: Well I suppose it depends on the various cultures and sects of buddhism SnarkyMan: Yes, jamie. But there are many sects. You could say Christians are organized too, then. Wentermute: It depends on defitions again. SailSatori: no buddishm is not worring about after death Jamie says: Are your parents Ameican born? HGilroy: oh Kris, you wacky head you! LotusB5: Wenter, that's one of the many myriad of reasons we get along so well. Maewren: Jamie, nope! KilnDA: the closest i came to buddism is living across the street from the Harikrishna Wentermute: LOtus: :-D Sati Space: Jamie who are you asking? Tweety68: I quess I will have to figure it out. Bye Kris954360: Hey Henry LotusB5: Tweety, Buddhism does NOT teach rebirth. SnarkyMan: Kiln: Am I having a dejavu? Didnt you say that already? HGilroy: Hi darlin'... missed ya this week. Wentermute: Some buddhists do, Lotus. SailSatori: yea, but buddhist do lotus Kris954360: watcha doin home you goofball? Jamie says: What country do they come from Mae? That can tell me a little bit about their Buddhist background SailSatori: lol went Kris954360: missed you too Sati Space: Tweety stay awhile, relax HpyLanding: Good evening, or is that being presumptuous? Kris954360: Jamie, just curious, are you caucasian? HGilroy: don't you mean... goober? Um, it's Wednesday, not Thurs... trying to work on ALIENS. LotusB5: Okay, so some didn't really get the Buddha's message. Jamie says: Yes Kris SnarkyMan: ...or as Sylvester the Car would say "Unlax" Kris954360: oh, kewl, so when are we gonna chat again? SnarkyMan: Car = Cat SailSatori: i do b5 Maewren: Lotus, what is the "message"? Kris954360: I'm impressed to hear that a caucasian knows so much about buddhism :) HGilroy: Am i botherin' you in here? SailSatori: the message of no message Kris954360: Not at all Henry Kris954360: I just got here myself Wentermute: Sylvester the Car!!! Yes, Vroom, Vroom. LotusB5: Sail: why believe in rebirth? SnarkyMan: ...but the message of no message is certainly a message Jamie says: You still here Mae? Maewren: Kris, lots of EuroAmericans know a lot about Buddhism HGilroy: this is true Maewren: Jamie, yes sir! SailSatori: i dont believe in rebirth, i dont care, i dont worry about whats beyond death SnarkyMan: gad, I hate "EuroAmericans!" AArmo: Why don't you care Sail? SailSatori: who shot the arrow? i dont care, take the son of a bitch out Kris954360: not in Tx they don't LotusB5: Down Snary! Down! Jamie says: No need to be sor formal Mae. SnarkyMan: yap, yap SailSatori: CANDI MY HEART IS BREAKING AArmo: Is he starting again Lotus? LotusB5: Yes AA. He is. Maewren: Kris, that's too bad...we should all try to learn as much as we can!!! SailSatori: starting what Jamie says: Mae, I think the Buddhist perspective regarding your work situation might be as follows Kris954360: I agree completely AArmo: Its that time of the night...maybe he needs to go for a walk SnarkyMan: ::sits, waits for milkbone:: LotusB5: AA: we must keep a tight leash on him. LotusB5: :-: here snark. SailSatori: hey there is a great book on work, its called mindfulness and meaningful work Wentermute: ::: Throws Snarky milkbone ::: AArmo: No, I say let 'em rip...he's fun when he's frisky. SnarkyMan: [you two have "power" over me. You are using it! Yipes!] Sati Space: :::scrathing Snarks ears::: Maewren: yes, Jamie? Jamie says: Mae: Sinse tyou can't change your co-worker you can only change the way you interact with him LotusB5: AA: when your right your right. Sic 'em Snark! AArmo: ::::scratching Snarkys belly....look at his leg go!:::: MKirk10353: Devine Peace to all present and good night ! Maewren: Jamie, but I wasn't talking about my coworkers!! HGilroy: did ya hear about the buddhist who went up to the hot dog stand? SnarkyMan: Takes leap at Went. Bites leg! LotusB5: Rotfl!!!AA Sati Space: nite MKirk Jamie says: Various sects of Buddhism offer different ways to observe yourself to gain insights as to HGilroy: He asked the guy "Make me one with everything!" AArmo: No biting Wenter! Heal Snarky Heal! SnarkyMan: lol, Gilroy. Wentermute: Stop that, Snark, the stitches are just setting in!!! Jamie says: It doesn't matter if it's a co-worker, a family member or whomever. LotusB5: Snark, you can have his leg, but nothing vital. He'll need it when he gets to my place next week. Kris954360: I don't get it Henry LotusB5: Kris, private joke, sorry about that. HGilroy: Make me one with everything!!!! Maewren: Jamie, but that is already my philosophy! :-) Jamie says: All that is important is that it is your Karma to have that person in your environment Kris954360: oh, you mean make me ONE with everything Maewren: hmmm... HGilroy: get it.... like a hot dog with everything and after life where you become everything! Sati Space: stiches Went? SnarkyMan: Bullshit, Jamie! {dont get me started on "karma!"] Wentermute: Sati: From time he ran away with the leg a couple weeks ago. AArmo: Uh oh, not karma...down Snarky down. Sati Space: I see Maewren: Snarky, please expound if you have different views! Sati Space: Karma yuck!! AArmo: Oh, Mae, bite your tongue. Wentermute: Snarky gets about as hot about karma as I do about rebirth. HGilroy: Karma is pure cause/effect relationship that seems to exist... Maewren: AA, ;-) SnarkyMan: There aint no karma. Karma yuck, is right. GURUBOX: samvrti anyone? AArmo: "Karma is yuck" Now that's a phrase for eternity. Maewren: what's wrong with karma?? HGilroy: Karma exists... I'm tellin' ya! LotusB5: Karma is expedient means to foster wholesome roots for people who don't know how to behave. Maewren: HG, I exist! Kris954360: I believe in it GURUBOX: you got it lotus AArmo: See Snarky..you do need to believe in Karma SnarkyMan: So poor people deserve to be poor, huh? And the rich earned their wealth is a former life?? HGilroy: In fact, I'll take my Karma and run right over your dogma with it.... so chill AArmo: Don't you want to be wholesome? Jamie says: For years Catholics refused to admit the earth revolved around the sun. SnarkyMan: Grrrr, AArmo. LotusB5: Snark, that's not what I said. Wentermute: Lotus: YES!! AArmo: :) Maewren: Snarky, have you ever study the Hindu religion? Maewren: HG, LOL SnarkyMan: Lotus: what? no I think I agree with you. LotusB5: Snark: poor people poor, cuz rich have no wholesome roots. SnarkyMan: No, Mae. I fake my knowledge of all religions. SailSatori: well i think this was all a waste of time, but it is at least more lively than the christian SailSatori: fellowship room AArmo: LOL Snarky Sati Space: Agree Snarky..Karma as most people tend to think about it is a bunch of poohie Sati Space: Sail that wasn't very nice! GURUBOX: ah, come on sail... no Xtians for you? HGilroy: Hey, it's easy to pretend you knowwhat your talkin' bout... just throw around words like.... HGilroy: bible AArmo: If there was such a thing as time he's be right Sati Maewren: Snark, so do I! SnarkyMan: I disagree with all the "reward system" thinking. That's Christians "earning" their way to SnarkyMan: heaven! Kris954360: I believe we are reborn around the same people each lifetime- our enemies, family and friend AArmo: No rewards...just getting as you've given. How is that a reward? SailSatori: anyone here read deitrich bonhoffer Sati Space: Disagree Kris SailSatori: the cost of discipleship LotusB5: Why is reincarnation such a prevalent thought? GURUBOX: gonna have to disagree w/ that kris SnarkyMan: AArmo. The point is that evil DOES pay, in its way. And the good DO suffer. AArmo: Lotus: because that is what this life will amount to if we are not enlightened. GURUBOX: is there really a supreme sacred being anyway? AArmo: How so Snarky? How does evil ever really pay? Kris954360: Fine, but I believe it AArmo: And if we are truly good can we suffer? Sati Space: Good-Evil dualism? LotusB5: AA: doesn't matter whether one attain enlightenment or not. SnarkyMan: The "Evil" get what they are after. They can add to others' suffering. Kris954360: life is suffering Maewren: sorry eveyone...I'm in IM land..so not following the thread... Kris954360: No matter what, there are ups and downs in everyone's life SnarkyMan: Sati: that's why I say evil in quotes. LotusB5: Kris, only if you view life that way. AArmo: And they too suffer because they are empty..Snarky GURUBOX: nice thought kris AArmo: Why doesn't it matter Lotus? LotusB5: Because the ultimate is not dependent on human thought. SnarkyMan: AArmo: Many empty evil people have "one hell of a party life." Sati Space: Kris but that is not caused by karma, that is lifes leassons Kris954360: it's realistic, something as simple as breaking up with a girl/boyfriend can bring you Kris954360: suffering to a degree Guru GURUBOX: life is relative and we are not all searching for the same truth of existence AArmo: Yes, but is a party life equivalent to non-suffering? Kris954360: true, I was answerig AArmo's question SAti HGilroy: I'm tellin' ya-----KARMA! I'm kinda agnostic.... but it seems like a physical force... SnarkyMan: No, AArmo. But dont you see you are starting to agree with me? There is no mechanism Sati Space: Downsides in life are the greatest teachers Kris954360: I agree HGilroy Wentermute: Boy, I'm glad I'm logging this -- I'm missing everything! SnarkyMan: necessary. All of life is the lesson of life. You dont have to be "given" a special path! Sati Space: Went were are you hiding AArmo: Does karma give you a path? NudistGal: Hi all Sati Space: Go Snark!!! ChadA1997: Hey ABBUDA,, ABUDAAA ABUDDA,,, got any SLERPIES???? Sati Space: were=where GURUBOX: the path itself does not exist for anyone in particular SnarkyMan: Yes, AArmo. that has to be what you are saying karma is! HGilroy: I don't think Karma gives you a path... you make it... Karma happens along the way... ChadA1997: ABUDA??? hey AArmo: No, not really...karma is a state, not a path...like conditions that are present...I think. Mensonge: hi all, what is karma? I've been trying to figure it out for years ChadA1997: KARMA is A LOSER Maewren: say folks, anyone know what is it on the East coast? I misplaced my watch AArmo: 11:17 mae SnarkyMan: HG, AA, Then I think you are saying there is no karma. Sati Space: Karma to me is a road with many twist and turns that the individual can manipulate Maewren: AA, thank you!! NudistGal: Mae, three hous from west coast AArmo: No prob Sati Space: 11:18 AArmo: Why do you think that Snarky? GURUBOX: karma does not exist as a sign post on the side of the path - it is the means to the paths end Mensonge: but isn't karma the products of our actions? RazorKing: a way of looking is karma is cause and effect, or karma is identity as experience, hmm GURUBOX: karma = our actions AArmo: I think karma is an accumulation of virtues, both good and bad GURUBOX: right aa Sati Space: that we can control NudistGal: what's a bad virtue? SnarkyMan: AA: Karma IS defined as "a product of your actions" I guess I believe there is no product/ SnarkyMan: reward. Mensonge: but how can you accumulate anything when it is all empty and temporary? HGilroy: I agree Mensonge, It's not something we can totally control... or is it? dang.... AArmo: I too disagree with the product theory. LotusB5: Karma is the moral legacy we leave in the wake of our actions. SnarkyMan: right on, Mesonge. Knowbdy: hey folks :) AArmo: Wow, did I agree with you snarky? GURUBOX: you are attempting not to accumulate - that is the point AArmo: ::scared::: Mensonge: HG -- if you try to control it, it will control you, and you will lose the path RazorKing: karma is a tool given as an idea to help people who are sick, I don't think that sick people RazorKing: are supposed to understand it Kris954360: the beautiful thing about buddhism is that it gives you the right to believe what you want SnarkyMan: right on, AA!! Kris954360: and decide for yourself what is truth AArmo: :::shaking::: LotusB5: RAzor, very good ;) AArmo: I wonder what kind of karma I am accumulating now Snarky. GURUBOX: sick = what? razor RYEDOE: then why do you need Buddhism if you can believe what ever you want? RazorKing: sick, contained by identity... SnarkyMan: Right, Kris. There is no "blind faith" in Buddhism. That is why I say it is not a religion SnarkyMan: you aint accumulating nothing, AA. GURUBOX: bound by material possession? AArmo: Cooooool. You're good for my karma. Kris954360: Exactly Snarky, buddhism is more of a philosophy rydoe GURUBOX: philosophy IS religion everybody! SnarkyMan: I agree with you, Krismeister. HGilroy: Shut up guru Kris954360: it teaches one to use his/her own mind, and control one's own destiny Sati Space: Agreed GURU RazorKing: buddhism is a glass of philosophy? AArmo: Depends on how much faith is involved Guru GURUBOX: piss off HG Wentermute: The point of buddha's treachings on karma is to stop accumulating it! SnarkyMan: Well, Guru. I would say that "religion" implies "faith." Kris954360: thanks snarky AArmo: Wenter: the voice of reason. LCristobal: isnt controlling one's destiny an oxymoron? GURUBOX: intellectual faith Sati Space: Went stop accumulating What? RYEDOE: then why go through Buddhism and not your self? AArmo: Self??? GURUBOX: b/c you would become attached rye HGilroy: the point is.... semantics. We're arguing over trivialities like we can know for sure. yike RYEDOE: to what/who? Kris954360: you don't have to go through Buddhism, buddhism accepts all religions, doesn't discount any RazorKing: the self is a bee in a mason jar; karma is watching the bee buzz around from outside? Wentermute: Sati: Karma. SnarkyMan: But, Went. That inplies that you should judge you actions instead of stop judging altogethe Sati Space: Went define Karma GURUBOX: when you focus through the self, you become attached to it rye - the self SnarkyMan: Interesting, Razor. But I dont think I understand. AArmo: Good point Snarky. LCristobal: literally, Karma means "action". RYEDOE: is there only one "true" religion then? AArmo: There is only one truth Rye. AArmo: Many paths to get there. GURUBOX: absolutely not rye - we each have our own RazorKing: snarky: idea: self as an evolving machine, karma as observing cause and effect in evolutio RazorKing: n, which can only realy be done not contained by the machine LCristobal: better to say there is only one essence. GURUBOX: good lc HGilroy: AA -- what is truth -- subjective experience for every individual or... Sati Space: And what might that be RYE? RYEDOE: who created all of these "paths"? Wentermute: Snarky: Huh? Buddha taught to stop thinking in terms of Good/Bad Karma and free Wentermute: yourself from its effect on you. AArmo: If I knew that HG I wouldn't be here. I'd be teaching instead of learning. RazorKing: to stop thinking of good and bad is to stop thinking HGilroy: After sitting in one spot for how many years... seven was it? RYEDOE: who? SnarkyMan: Went. I say stop thinking of karma altogether! [I am better than Buddha!] Sati Space: so if you are not suppose to think in those terms why bother thinking about Karma HGilroy: AA -- there you go then -- there isn't a single path... but perhaps many, one for each.. AArmo: SNARKY!!! Mr. Ego is running loose...get 'em COOKIEFIXR: Buddha is Wisdom SnarkyMan: Razor: Stop thinking in polarities. SnarkyMan: bam,bam,bam, AArmo: That's what I said...One truth many paths to get there HG Kris954360: gosh Snarky, then I guess you will be rising to Nirvana soon NEBELHORN: ooooooooooommmmmmmmmmmmmm LJACK25: is any one in here ZEN RYEDOE: what is at the end of the path? LCristobal: "Seek not after truth; only cease to cherish opinion." COOKIEFIXR: Om mani padme hum RazorKing: hi ljack, ooof, gotta say, do sit GURUBOX: nothing NEBELHORN: i'm into past lives AArmo: Very weak bams tonight Snarky..you musn't want him to die. SnarkyMan: Tomorrow at 7pm: Snarkyism Chat Wentermute: Well, that is the ultimate point you reach, Snarky. I agree. Sati Space: Rye I was asking about one "true religion? SnarkyMan: beautiful, LCris! SnarkyMan: BAM,BAM,BAM!!! LCristobal: purportedly from G. Buddha. HGilroy: REligion... caca theology used by men to control other men... Sati Space: I attend a Zen Temple AArmo: That's better. He dead? LJACK25: Can any one drink cha from an empty cup Katerina17: has anybody read Thich Nhat Hanh ? RYEDOE: then why have a religion or philosophy if there is nothimg? RazorKing: religion is a tool, if the use of the tool is corrupt, the tool is corrupt RYEDOE: ng? LotusB5: HG: then you do not understand Buddhism very well. Sati Space: Yes to TNH HGilroy: Razor... name one religion not corrupted by man's pettiness? SnarkyMan: I say there aint nothing, Rye. There is Cosmic consciousness. Kris954360: Rye, use the teachings as a guide- but decide for yourself what you believe is true Mensonge: nothing is not, don't entify it -- you'll fall into one of the extremes of nihilism RazorKing: rye: neither nothing nor not-nothing... (ZEN is not corrupt) SnarkyMan: Snarkyism, HG HGilroy: Lotus... never said I did... that's why I'm here. Maewren: anyone ever read the little prince? GURUBOX: to comprehend the nothingness we must use rel/philosophy as a guide LotusB5: Righto Kris. LCristobal: RYE: what do you want? RYEDOE: what do you mean? Katerina17: Sati Space, I have a very superficial knowledge of Buddhism, I'm actually Jewish. LotusB5: Definitely Mensonge. AArmo: Snarkyism=seeking refuge in the Snarky. LJACK25: Did anyone see LITTLE BUDDHA HGilroy: Also... Lotus... there are so many sects of Buddhism that openly disagree... Mensonge: nothingness/sunyata is not to be comprehended, but rather experienced Wentermute: Hah! Now snarky hears the catcalls of "Nihilism!!" SnarkyMan: Yes, AA. Sadly so true, so true. Kris954360: are you talking to me Rye? LCristobal: what is behind your objection to other people having their religions? HGilroy: how can you tell what's what.... eh? mister know it all Sati Space: Religious organizations can be corrupt, but not the religion SnarkyMan: Exactly, Went. RazorKing: mensonge is correct, experience outside of knowledge HGilroy: I saw little Buddha AArmo: One uzi is going to protect us all? GURUBOX: but mens, mustn't we be guided to it first? LotusB5: Yes Mensonge. LJACK25: It ruled Katerina17: But, my boyfriend is doing a paper on "Socially engaged Buddhism" for his senior rel. sem. Kris954360: Rye, were you asking me? Sati Space: Katrina were you on Prodigy Pagan: <hello...> LotusB5: Hi AArmo: Welcome pagan Mensonge: lotus and razork -- what do you study? ch'an/zen or madhyamika? RYEDOE: no, Christolbol Pagan: <thank you> Katerina17: No. Kris954360: ok SnarkyMan: Kat: Buddhism is a stew, like anything so big and so sectarian. RazorKing: zen (tathagata/rinzai) LotusB5: Mens: Mahayana Sati Space: Katrina there is an intresting book on that subject Katerina17: So what did you think of TNH, sati space ? Mensonge: i'll be translating some nagarjuna in the next year-- any suggestions? Maewren: I'll be right back everyone!!! Katerina17: What book ? I read some TNH from Gassho, the Buddhist E-Journal. LotusB5: Mens: my sect based on Lotus Sutra. HGilroy: Kris? Did you get my IM this time? SnarkyMan: I must be going. I had a swell time, as always, my friends. AArmo: I'm going to catch some ZZZ's....gnite everyone! Kris954360: ye-p Sati Space: TNH has intresting ways of teaching Buddhism to the masses, I enjoyed him because LotusB5: Gosh, you guys are leaving early tonight. Sati Space: he teaches about the practice vs getting hung up on doctrines Kris954360: how do I get the Buddhist E-Journal? Mensonge: lotus-- i'm pretty sure nagarjuna was quite familiar with that one Kris954360: bye snarky LotusB5: G'nite Snarkman. Namaste. LotusB5: Yes indeed Mens. Mensonge: nagarjuna specialized in the tetralemma and dependent origination Sati Space: what about marajuna? Wentermute: Bye, Snarky! HGilroy: Namaste... as on the trail from Namche Bazarre to Gokyo Ri.... Sati Space: Nite Snarky, don't let your tail get caught in the door!! LotusB5: My only objection to Nagarjuna is the intellectual level of his treatises. But he did elucidate much. RazorKing: sati: drugs are interesting in the context of moods, which interests b-ism! Wentermute: Man, what a whirlwind of a chat. And I've got the log this time. Katerina17: Kris, you get to Gassho by a subject tree. Do you have access to university internet ? Kris954360: Katerina, how do I go about getting this Buddhis E-Journal? Mensonge: yes, he definitely knew the form, but seems to miss the substance. Kris954360: oh, I don't know, I think so Sati Space: Kris you can get Gassho from eating Beans LOL!!! Wentermute: Nagarjunian phil. can easily be mistaken for nihilism, but its not. LotusB5: Mens: yes, although I can still understand what he wrote, it does lack the compassion of the Buddha. Katerina17: OK. I go to school in Allentown. I'll send you my address at school in your mailbox & give Mensonge: wentermute -- very true, it is actually life affirming Katerina17: Kris. give you directions for accessing Gassho. OK? Sati Space: Kris you can get Gassho from internet access on AOL I found a copy Kris954360: ok, thanks Katerina, sati Mensonge: do you think that compassion must be discussed explicitly to be there? Wentermute: All the Madyamikas are saying is that there is no expression that is accurate and so they HGilroy: Not to beat a dead horse... but i use Karma all the time in my work. Wentermute: negate anything that is said. Mensonge: wentermute -- the ch'annist said the same thing! Sati Space: Kris if I can find it again I will let you know how to find it Katerina17: Great, sati space. Sati, if I give U my E-mail address at school, would you write ? LotusB5: Mens: no, it's not the discussion of compassion that is lacking, the compassion itself is. Kris954360: ok thanks guys Sati Space: Sure Kat!! Wentermute: Mns: What's this, a fellow Ch'anner!? Mensonge: lotus -- that sounds like a psych evaluation to me of nagarjuna LotusB5: Mns: just my basic impression. Mensonge: wentermute- just part of my overall studies Katerina17: I'm very interested in Buddhism. I did a walking meditation w/ a practitioner from SanFran. Mensonge: lotus -- at least you're in the Tao LotusB5: Mns: where do you study? Wentermute: Mns: I wade heavily into Ch'an Buddhism. I think they had it best. Mensonge: wherever I am Mensonge: seriously at U of Buffalo HGilroy: after listenin' to you folks.... I realize I don't know crap... even after staying at... HGilroy: monastery in the highlands of Nepal for a month. Mensonge: Wentermute -- I've been tending towards the metaphysical Indians of late LotusB5: Mns: what is it with the East Coast that it has so much Buddhist study? Wentermute: HGilroy: That's good, stay that way. It's when you fill your head with intell. junk that Wentermute: problems occcur. LotusB5: HG: that is the first step to REAL learning. Mensonge: i've been studying with Dr. Inada - world renowned Buddhologist LotusB5: Mns: know any good schools in Japan? Wentermute: Oh? That must be something. Would like to become a reincarnation of Alan Watts myself HGilroy: That's the problem.... these monks in the mountains are real... they don't delve into all... Mensonge: sorry no, but I could find out HGilroy: this semantics and culture this crap... they just commune with the land and their gods. LotusB5: Mns: I'd greatly appreciate it. LotusB5: Thanks in advance. Wentermute: HGilroy: Communing with the land, that's good. Gods, well, forget that. Mensonge: lotus -- I'll try and let you know, where do you study? LotusB5: Mns: At Mankato State Univ. in Minnesota, but only getting undergrad degree in philo right now... LotusB5: want to continue with Doc in Eastern philo. HGilroy: Wrong! Not to a monk who gets his life from the ground and the rice it gives him... see? Mensonge: where, on the West coast? Katerina17: Sati, are you there ? LotusB5: Mns: where what? Study for doc? Wentermute: HGilry: What;s that to do with gods? Just plant the rice and eat it after its harvested. Mensonge: there aren't too many schools on the East coast that do it in philo HGilroy: okay, but outside of that, the Tibetan Buddhists believe in all sorts of mountain spirits. LotusB5: Mns: how about Eastern religions? Wentermute: HGilroy: Yes, I know. I personally thinks its .... unneccesary. Mensonge: yes, you'll find that in comparative religions or east asian studies Mensonge: for philo however, Hawaii is probably the best, I almost went there HGilroy: Wenter -- unnecessary!?!? you have to see it and experience it before you say that!! LotusB5: Can one get doc in Eastern stuff if one only has BA/BS in philo? HGilroy: You have no clue what it's like for them and you say -- unnecessary... you're perspective... HGilroy: is one of ignorance. Wentermute: HG: Well, I'm sure they disagree. But what's gods to do with escpaing suffering. Mensonge: yes, I went from a BA in hist+philo straight to PhD prog. in philo LotusB5: At U of Buffalo? Mensonge: yes, its a four year program, but Inada is retiring so I would say look elsewhere Wentermute: HG: I'm not saying its wrong, just that it seems an unecesary complication of practice. HGilroy: Wenter -- the belief that something more is helping them surivive their brutal life! LotusB5: I would prefer West Coast, but I will go where needed. Prefer Japan most tho. HGilroy: The peole live off rice/beans - dhal-baaht they call it... If the monsoon lasts too long... HGilroy: their screwed! people die! Mensonge: i know that when i finish next year (maybe) that i'll be looking out there for a job Wentermute: HG: Life is brutal whether there are gods or not. And I've been on deaths door myself, Wentermute: thank you. LotusB5: HG: the people are very close to the land and feel its life. This is what they consider to be gods. LotusB5: Mns: jobs are hard to come by. I prefer research, but will earn money as a nurse. Good combo no? HGilroy: That's right Lotus.... the earth itself has life... and to deify such a thing isn't wrong Wentermute: HG: Like I said, its not wrong or anything. HGilroy: it's great.. Mensonge: sure but i have to teach this stuff, i'll be doing that at a prison next week LotusB5: HG: Thru this practice, they have appreciation for life and treat the land well. LotusB5: Prison? Sati Space: Went I knocked at deaths door my self, great learning experience Wentermute: HG: If it works for you, great. I talking about my own belief, not trying to convince you Wentermute: yours is wrong. HGilroy: That's right Lotus, it's almost Shamanistic in this way... Mensonge: yes, i'll be introducing them to Buddhism, mostly the earlier stuff Wentermute: Sati: My knock was self-induced. Suicide attempt. HGilroy: I know Wenter... just be tolerant of the beliefs of others that's all... these people arent' HGilroy: wrong,,, just different. LotusB5: HG: very much so. Is good practice to stay rooted to value of life and earth. Mensonge: HG - do you think the shamanistic aspect is due to the Chinese influence Wentermute: HG: I am tolerant. Sati Space: Mine was a close encounter with a deer Wentermute: LOL. Life does that doesn't it? Mensonge: Sati -- I once killed a deer by accident with my car HGilroy: Absolutely... most primitive peoples have this sort of relationship with the environment! Mensonge: HG why call them primitive-- that's bigoted! LotusB5: HG: Much better than western people. Sati Space: Well we killed one by accident going 70 mph and it came through the windshield Wentermute: HG: I guess, it just gopes over my head that you need gods to do that. I'm sure its helps, Mensonge: Sati -- that's dangerous, I hope no one was hurt Wentermute: but seems like it places things to be grapsed onto. HGilroy: Mensong! I'm gonna spank you! They are primitive compared to western TECHnology.... HGilroy: not western thought! egad you! Zircov: How can I avoid the pain of separation from loved ones in Buddhism? Sati Space: We were but we lived, actually it was a great leasson Mensonge: HG -- you're grasping after straws Mensonge: Sati - a lesson in what? LotusB5: HG: But who is really primitive, those who value life, or those who don't? Sati Space: My husband believes in local gods HGilroy: See, in this country we've gotten so far away from nature... it's changed in our perception LotusB5: Mns: why early teach early Buddhism? Wentermute: Zircov: You can't. But buddhism can help you deal with it. Mensonge: i'm stuck with an assigned text, and my dissertation work is in this area Zircov: How does it help me deal with it? BriBriC: evening all! Sati Space: Men It slowed us down, and you leraned the true value of life,friends, and family HGilroy: In the last few years we have done much to help earth... but Pre eighties we were hittin' HGilroy: her with the sword LotusB5: Hi Bri Zircov: This is no theoretical question. I need to find serenity in my life, because nothing else works. HGilroy: heloo Bri! Mensonge: Sati- sounds like you got a good dose of compassion Mensonge: Hi Bri Zircov: And I think buddhism may be the answer. Mensonge: Zircov -- Buddhism has no answers -- that's too dualistic and logical LotusB5: Zir: it is, but it will require effort on your part. Sati Space: Exactly Men, and the funny thing was we were on our way to the Buddhist Temple for my BriBriC: is this a general buddhist room or is it of a specific sect Jpmjpmjpm: Hello buddhists Zircov: I've read a little book of koans. Sati Space: daughters baby blessing, I guess she was blessed LotusB5: Hello, this is general Buddhist room. Zircov: And looked at the new book by Salzberg (?) teaching Buddhism. Jpmjpmjpm: Huh. BriBriC: i spent some time in thailand, it has almost its own version Mensonge: strange and scary blessing, but that's what you get in life, right? Jpmjpmjpm: For General buddhists SUSANADL: GOOD EVENING HGilroy: MENSONGE!! Stop judging other people's view as wrong because of your limited view, eh? Mensonge: Hi there Su LotusB5: Zir, there are many books, try Thach Nhit Hanh. Wentermute: That's Buddhist in General. Lots of Buddhist scools JPM. Ohev: anyone here been to the VMC in Mass.? Mensonge: who am I judging? BriBriC: similar to sri lanka, but different from china and japan Sati Space: Right, she was not hurt at all, covered in deer blood and feces but unhurt SUSANADL: what form are we talking about Zircov: Gotta leave, do an errand. Thanks. Mensonge: Sati -- that must have stunk! Jpmjpmjpm: Hi Susan Sati Space: Yes, but I could be a game hunter now, once you get up close and personal you can smell HGilroy: Mensonge you judged Zircov buddhism and it's followers... think before speaking Sati Space: deer a mile away LOL!! LotusB5: Mns: now don't forget about finding out about the Japanese schools, and any on west coast for Relig LotusB5: studies okay? Mensonge: how did i judge it? Mensonge: i'll remember LotusB5 LotusB5: You know my email address right? Wentermute: HG: I though he was just making it clear that Buddhism doesn't have any magical answers. Mensonge: just use your name here, right? Mensonge: thanks Wentermute LotusB5: righto, and thanks again. HGilroy: You said it's "Too dualistic and Logical -- containing no answers" Mensonge: looking for answers outside when they can only found within is bifurcating your Mensonge: original nature LotusB5: Sati, you bloodthirsty huntress you ;). SUSANADL: dualistic is of planet earth Sati Space: Give me a gun!!! SUSANADL: its a law Mensonge: Sati and Susan -- I had a prof. who used to hunt bambi HGilroy: Bifurcating? is that a word? Wentermute: Susan: It;s also why people suffer when they attach to it. SUSANADL: that sad Mensonge: HG: yes HGilroy: boy... this room has cleared out! LotusB5: Well folks, I'm bushed. See ya later. Wentermute: Yes, it is getting late. Mensonge: HG; are you approaching emptiness? Sati Space: Well this might sound strange from a Buddhist I do not have anything against hunters as Mensonge: Later Lotus and Wenter Sati Space: long as it is done with the right intent Wentermute: Bye, Men, Sati, HG. HGilroy: Later Wenter! LotusB5: Sati, there is no real birth or death. So hunting is okay. Sati Space: By Went see you tomorrow? HGilroy: Doh! Mensonge: Sati -- how can a Buddhist not have a problem with "INTENTION"? HGilroy: Do you guys do this every night? SUSANADL: that sounds rational Wentermute: Sati: Yep...I'm supposed to be leading tommorrow on Meditation. See ya!